Beyond The Socialist Dream, A Money-less Society Part I
Posted on Sunday the 5th of November, 2006 at 6:51 pm in BlogishOne of the goals of socialists is an economy in which all participants are equal and goods are available to all regardless of family, wealth or occupation. The ultimate goal of such an economy is an entirely money less society in which goods are free for all. Unfortunately a a system such as this is not possible when goods and resources are finite and where some occupations are harder to train for and others are physically harder.
Another problem with this system is that a money-less economy does not encourage hard work. As was demonstrated on the communal farms of Russia, when each worker has little reward for working harder than a minimal amount there is little reason to work harder. If harder work doesn’t mean more reward what is the point? In a completely equal society there is little point outside of personal pride, but even that is taken away with the right (or wrong as the case may be) conditioning. In a group society it does not serve to stick out among ones compatriots. However it is possible to encourage those who wish to succeed while still keeping people economically equal if a merit based system was introduced. A merit system would reward those that put more effort into benefiting society and as such allow them access to greater wealth and have the opportunity to acquire more exclusive goods.
In such a system a person would not be competing against all other people and occupations as they do in a money economy, but instead compete against those that have similar educations and occupations. Lets take for example two theoretical people. The first is a maid who never finished high school; the second person is a doctor who is among the preeminent surgeons of the day. Quite obviously in a money economy the maid would make far less money than the doctor, even to the point where the maid may make in a lifetime what the doctor makes in a year. Although one may argue that the doctor, because of his position and education, is worth more money than the maid, but should the doctor’s children automatically have a better chance at life than the maids? In a perfect society it sounds nice that the maid’s children have the same opportunity, but in reality the doctor’s children would have access to better schools and better teachers.
Ensuring all people start equally in life should be the main goal of the system, but as a person ages the amount of effort they are willing to put in should determine where they end up. Using this system each person must be the best they can be, or are left behind to fulfill the more menial requirements of society. Those that surpass expectations will prosper while others will only look on with envy and have none to blame but themselves. Rather than money, family or connections a person’s own nature will define their life.
In the first paragraph, you mentioned that a system such as this is impossible because goods and resources are finite. The trouble with this statement is that all finite goods are either unnecessary to continue a life comparable to the one currently enjoyed by the top societies on the planet, or they are unnecessary period. For example, oil is unnecessary. As has been proven time and time again by many of the worlds top scientists, there are alternatives, such as synthetic oils for the lubrication of machinery. As for oil products, such as gasoline, there are many many different ideas already circulating, many of which work better than gasoline at doing the same job, which is to make things go. These alternatives are only being supressed because the monetary cost is too high. If there were no monetary cost, the argument goes away.
Reply to tmsbrdrsIn your second paragraph, you mention the russian communal farms as proof that moneyless economies don’t encourage hard work. I agree, moneyless economies, when allowed to also be free, encourage smart work, not hard work. If a person has a choice between working for 12 hours in a field and building a machine, or attaining a machine, that will do the same work for him, without him having to do more than flip a switch, he chooses the machine. In current society, this would put many people out of work because the machine would enable one man to do the work of 12 with less stress. In a moneyless economy however, this would mean that the other 11 people could do what they actually want to do, the thing that makes them happy, such as exploring, building, learning, playing music, etc. A man will not work harder than his neighbor, he will work smarter. Because of this, everyone wins. The only problem comes from money. Get rid of it, the problem goes away. You also mention that in a group society, it doesn’t serve to stick out among ones compatriots. I’ve been in several groups and the only way that is true is if you stick out from the bottom rather than from the top. In a football team, the one who everyone shuns from the group is the one who always sits on the bench or the one who acts like an ass. On the other hand, the one who makes the team better is involved more in the group dynamic.
You also mention that the only way to fix the problem you’ve set up is with a merit based system, but wouldn’t this destroy the entire foundation of a moneyless society? Money is merit in the current system.
Since your third paragraph uses the same arguments I’ve already contended with, I’ll skip to the last. In this paragraph, you mention that the main goeal of the system should be ensuring all people begin life equally. The problem with this argument when taken in context with the rest of your essay is that it is impossible according to you, to do this without taking control of all children and raising them away from any outside influence that is different from any of the others. However, when allowed to work properly, letting individuals do what they love to do, rather than just putting them in a group doing the same thing where there’s no reward for doing the same thing better no matter what, when allowed to work properly, equality is a given. People do what they love to do, gaining personal merit, doing what makes them happy. I’m sure your argument for this would be that if everyone were allowed to do what makes them happy, nobody would do anything. If this were the case, the human race would have ended a very long time ago. People who are allowed to do what makes them truly happy have a longer, more fruitful life, which, in turn, means that the children of those people will have a longer, more fruitful life and, with this being said, you now know the true goal of a real socialist society. Freedom to be who you are, regardless of where you began.
tmsbrdrs, I liked your comments. There are so many reasons why we can get rid of money. All the negative comments about money-less economy have solutions, just like what you have said, and some more others that we have not yet thought or said.
Reply to Ali Dy ChinIt can work, but………. we would ALL have to change our mind set, and NOt think about having MORE of everything. Thinking that’s what would make me happy. The rich people have proved it for years. Those who have everything. Once you have the ability to buy anything you want, traveld where ever you awanted to go, etc, etc, etc. What happens in the end. You are still not happy. We would ALL have to have a mind set of working hard each day at making the world a better place. That’s why it will never work, because you could never get every one to think the same. But wouldn’t it e cool to see if it could work?
Reply to Mike RoeI don’t more than you think that I can deny Our Moneyless Society to be
Reply to Joram Arentvedas Anything Impossible, the way, that I look at it, is, however, another concept, our true nature as honest humans, an issue, on which I
can of course only recommend you some more advice of mine, what do we achieve by permitting, say that George B. can control us through abuse of economic advantages? Greetings, arentved@in.com.
The moneyless future, i.e. our own as moralists, maybe to be, is an issue, any law representative is please quite welcome to take up with me, so that I can of course tell & e.g. help us both find out how & when to become whatever representatives of, what a good future
Reply to J.A.truly is, greetings, arentved@in.com, most likely to be continued.
I definitely agree on the possibility and the advantage of a money-less economy. We do not need money because money is the source of all evils.
Reply to Ali Dy ChinWe have more than enough biological resources. We have enough sources of energy for producing goods - e.g., geothermal, solar and wind energy, hydroelectric, nuclear energy, fossil fuels, and some others. And we have also the technology - nanotechnology, computer-based industries, and what-have-you.
What we need only now is the optimism, unity and the determination to get rid of a money-based system of economy.
Is anyone out there who knows a group or website that advocates a money-less economy so that I can give my moral support, at least, please let me know. Anyone who wants to talk with me about creating a group advocating a money-less economy, please contact me at my email - odyssey285@yahoo.com
By the way, where is the part 2 of the essay? I can’t wait to read it. Thanks a lot.
Hello Ali Dy Chin
Reply to Rupert RussellCheck out the Venus Project.
Best wishes
Rupert
Thanks Rupert. This site summarizes what I believe is the answer.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/intro_main/whatis_tvp.htm
Reply to Bob WilkinsonWould you like to live in a world where money does not exist? A world where everything is free? A world without rich or poor? A civilization where all human needs are met by society working together as a whole? A world without boundaries, where people live together in peace and harmony?
Because all human beings are basically socialist anarchists at heart, most people will say ‘yes’. But, they will ask, would it be possible?
The only way for this plan to work is for the message to be spread.
Tell people about the 2012 Strike for a Moneyless World . If they like the idea, tell them to tell their friends. Those friends will tell others, and by the year 2012 everyone on the planet will know about the strike and decide whether they are for or against it. On that day a new moneyless system will begin which will change the world completely.
You might consider distributing copies of this flyer -
WORLD STRIKE 2012
If you agree that the abolition of money would be a fine solution to most of our problems, and that we could create a much better system where EVERYTHING - food and drink, clothing and housing, water, heating, education, health-care and entertainment - shall be FREE for EVERYONE - why not join the World-Wide Strike on the opening day of the Olympic Games in 2012?
The Strike will begin the moment the symbolic Olympic flame is lit - the signal for all who support the abolition of money to stop work and demand a new fair world of true freedom and justice.
WE WANT A MONEYLESS WORLD
http://yabanji.tripod.com/id10.html
http://money-free.ning.com/
Reply to yabanjiA moneyless society will only occur by consensus. Stating that everything will be free if money were abolished is not true either; effort and materials go into any product. Once we realize how much time we waste keeping the economy functioning, we can begig to change the structure of material distribution. All one hears about today are deficits, bankruptcies, foreclosures, greed, Wall Street bailouts, and the endless financial analysts with their opinions on how to fix the economy. Our minds are constantly interrupted with commercials, and during social gatherings, the inevitable topic of conversation usually turns to money. We go to college with the goal of getting a good job that pays well. As a species we have not realized how much we waste of our lives with our endless preoccupation with money. It has become a sport also, something that computerized trading has made possible for the masses. Money has become a type of scorecard for those who are trying to get more than the next guy. I think we waste at lest half of all human effort keeping our money based economy functioning, and we’re not doing very well either. You are considered a nobody, or a kook if you think that money is the problem and should be eliminated. We have all heard the same arguement: If there were no money and everything were free, no one would work and chaos would take over. This is a true statement because we are not ready for a moneyless society yet. It will eventually happen, but not until we all get tired of keeping the present system in place. It must be a consensus, we all must agree. Trying to force a moneyless system with a strike will only cause more division. We need to educate each other, and discuss how to implement it. No one has all the answers. Until we all contribute what we can to get the necessary work done, we will have a money based system that forces us to work. Children would need to be raised with a good work, as well as play ethic, instead children are indoctrinated into a world where war, greed, and money are the primary motivating factors. We are not ready to abolish money yet because we have not learned to cooperate with each other, unless we are getting paid to do it. However a forum like this is part of the process, and gives me hope for a bright moneyless future for the people who have not yet been born.
Reply to Bob WilkinsonVery well said Bob! But those of us who subsribe to such ideas need to network more, need to learn that we are not alone in thinking them. I belong to an organisation called World in Common (www.worldincommon.org) that has this particular perspective but there must be many more out there thinking along the same lines. How can we get to know more of each other´s existence? It is vital for all sorts of reasons - morale , credibility and the opportunity to learn from each other - that we reach out to each other as well as try to convince others not of our basic viewpoint
Cheers
Robin
Reply to robintest
Reply to testneed nano tech to get to the stage of replicators coz people wont do hard work for free nobody will want to do the dirty jobs - technology is the only way out of money we need those aliens to give us the tech to do it.
Reply to edTech is already there. Once you release the tech from financial chains that stifle its growth it will explode like a light, the brightness of which has never been seen before. I am not a spiritual person but I believe this idea of a money less society is the single most important thing to happen to human kind since the invention of language.
Reply to Rupert RussellI second the motion. I also believe that once technology is freed from the monopoly of capitalism, it is something to reckon with.
Reply to Ali ChinEverything is already here given by the Almighty God - from the smallest hydrogen (H2O) to the biggest universe (imagine when there is no sun, and water).
And humanity had already done its part - inventions and innovations.
What is lost is the culture of generosity, caring, selflessness and all that is spiritual (to sum it up in Islam, it is called Jihad, not the western jihad which is equated to violence), which is just as important as the material needs of man (without which mankind would be in chaos AS WE HAVE WITNESSED RIGHT BEFORE OUR VERY EYES).
Materials are completely around. All we need more is just the spiritual motivations - which is fulfilled by Islam. The present world plus Islam equals Heaven on Earth.
I am sorry, folks, but I have to share this secret of success to have a true happiness for mankind.
Who needs money then, when everyone is vying to do good deeds and share/give for the sake of pleasing the One true God, thus an eternal blissful life after death, which is inevitable and as realistic as the existence of man itself.
My mother & God never approved of & anything about me, therefore, whatever He exists or not, I’m willing to tell you
Reply to Joram Arentvedmy best news, an issue, whereon you & your humanrightattorney are still welcome to receive any of my further & most relevant information, to be
continued, so that I can at
least & long last more easily than up till now of course become & believe in & as much as possible about, what my fate mission
is, due to & still the best
result to be of an undeserved behavior, I still don’t know, don’t think, if I can explain to myself, & whereto there is still only ONE solution, to
be continued, greet’s, arentved@in.com.
nice to see the devil pop in for a comment on the issue although he needs to work on his english a little bit.
Reply to edThe devil lurks as long as the world exists. But they are doomed to fail and doomed to hell - fire, forever.
Reply to Ali ChinThe only thing that slows down the development of tech is funding and the suppression of patents. There are literally hundreds of thousands of ideas out there locked in vaults or stuffed into desk drawers or hidden under floor boards waiting to be discovered, released onto a waiting world. It is the very existence of a monetary system that chokes technological expansion and advancement.
Check out Zeitgeist: Addendum
There is hope now, for everyone.
Reply to Rupert RussellI agree that it would be difficult to implement a moneyless society, with so much apathy and indoctrination in the world. I think however that people really do long for a more fulfilling life, free from the constraints of money. There are so many human resources going to waste because they want to earn enough money to have a comfortable life, rather than putting their resources and ingenuity into improving themselves and the world at large.
I concur with the idea of mobilising the world community at large, at present it is practically impossible to find any decent resources or groups around a moneyless society. What is needed is a single resource, a global website and community to give more power to the necessary ideas and concepts for our species’ and planet’s survival.
It seems to be an occasional forum posting is the only thing that search engines spit out…
Oh it’s really hard not to become really bitter and depressed with the state of the world! I need to find friends who actually give a crap about the world!
Reply to Andrew WilliamsPeace.
Andrew, Hi.
Reply to Rupert RussellMy life was plodding along quite nicely; good business, beautiful wife, lovely kid, living the middle class dream if you will. Then someone flicked a switch in my deep subconscious, this stunningly simple but nonetheless amazing idea has knocked me sideways. It occupies my every waking thought, it is brilliant. If I happened to believed in any gods I would swear that I had found him or her, an epiphany if you will, in this one simple glorious idea.
I have read stream after stream of claim and counter claim, 3, 4, 5 way arguments swinging back and forth, brilliant questions followed by eloquent and precise answers, stupid questions followed by polite and gentle answers and everything in between. In all my research I am yet to find a single plausible argument that a money-less is a non starter. (And don’t say human nature, that developes to fit the environment in which it thrives.)
The human race as an organism is pretty ill, I am utterly convinced this is the cure.
We must get organised, this idea needs to spread, take it to the next level and save the world.
Thanks Andrew,
Yours is reflective of many of the other kind and thoughtful posts on this topic. Something must be changing. Here I was, thinking that maybe we were all stuck in the ugly materialistic mindset of the 80s forever! Fortunately I was wrong. I think that maybe people are finally starting to understand that we should not, and indeed cannot put a price on life if we are to live in peace. Campaigns like Adbusters really drive this point home. They are the ones who created the ‘logo flag,’ in which the stars of the American flag are replaced by popular corporate logos. Also, there is one very disturbing image, also created by Adbusters, in which a newborn is tattooed with corporate logos. I am so relieved to see that we are all evolving past this brutal way of thinking and believing. If we were to eliminate the money system, wars would not be funded, nor would human trafficking. We might not eliminate crime altogether with the elimination of money, but I’m pretty certain the world would be a sweeter and more compassionate place to live if we were to do so. Finally, I am convinced that the elimination of the class system would do away with judgmental mindsets for good, and that would be a tremendous step forward. For example, I live in a poor neighborhood because I really need the benefit of rent control. Many would say that this in itself makes me a bad person. But poor people are not ‘bad’ or ‘lazy.’ They are simply down on their luck. Peace.
Reply to Lori Leeok whose up for purchasing a domain name and hosting, heres the ironic part im not flush with the green right now to do it but i will certainly contribute in anyway - infact i had to take down one of my quite precious .coms because i hadnt got the money to keep it on. life is tough this year.
we could probably do a free blog thing i suppose start somewhere with content, and eventually give it a top level domain and good design, anyway im willing - bit busy at the moment with credit card fraud again ironically enough but yeah lets see … I ll create a quick blog later and anyone who wants to contribute should join in… i gotta go now but ill be back later everyone watch the space … we gonna do somthin’ hey if you got the time create the blog and link it ill be there.
Reply to edjust let me know your blog and you can count on my support for the good-loving people like you. Yes, we can do it.
Reply to Ali ChinThere’s already a huge movement started in Florida called the Venus Project. Check it out and send this link to all your friends. Read the concepts about a resourced based economy. Spread the word.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/intro_main/whatis_tvp.htm
Reply to Bob Wilkinsonis it not just about money-making project? I doubt it.
Reply to Ali ChinHi,
it’s good to see this important topic being discussed. I’m posting without much hope that this is a very live thread, but feel leaving something behind here might reach someone.
The original essay extrapolates a moneyless society directly from today’s, without considering the necessary and profound redesign attaining a non-monetary, post-scarcity society would entail. We cannot simply step away from money or a medium of exchange and hope for the best. It would not work. We’re not ready for it psychologically, and global infrastructure is way too inefficient. The nation state would also need to be transcended. A moneyless society is something to be worked towards deliberately and carefully, step by step.
Bob Wilkinson posted a link to The Venus Project, which I echo here. The people there have spent decades planning how to transition to a moneyless world. Their plans are well thought out (I visited them) and, of course, complex. The arguments as to why such a move is necessary, and why such a world would be a vast improvement on the current model, are lengthy, requiring much study and application to assimilate and understand. This is not a topic to be lightly considered. There is a valid way to get beyond money, but defining it takes time.
Cheers
Reply to Toby RussellToby
I agree that it would take intense planning and study in order for a money-less society to be realized; a renaissance would need to occur. That could only happen with generations of study on the deleterious effects that money has wrought upon the human condition. As of now there are no mainstream ideas circulating in the mass media or much anywhere else, besides a few blogs, and http://www.thevenusproject.com. However, I see it as an inevitable consideration given the boom-bust manic depressive economic cycles, where everybody is either riding high when the stocks are going up, or sinking low when the bubble finally bursts, which it always does. Until Economics and MBA programs are transformed into other disciplines of study that concentrate on getting the goods produced and transported to where they are needed, things cannot change.
It is my opinion that children hold the answer. Why are children so happy? It’s simple; their minds are free from the confines of economic calculations. Adults may wonder what happened to their childhood and why they can’t feel as free and happy as they did when they were children. We all live for the weekend when we can have a couple of days to cut loose and give our brains a temporary escape from the economic calculators that we have turned our minds into. For a few brief moments we actually feel happy, but then on Monday we have to change gears and turn the mental calculators back on. Try keeping tract of how much time, and how many economic considerations you make on a daily basis. All this preoccupation with money robs us of our lives, and is a complete waste of time. Children don’t have this problem, and until we realize that the answer is in our children and relearn what we have lost, the boom-bust manic-depressive economic cycles will continue.
Reply to Bob WilkinsonContinued. George B. approves of no honesty, so I myself don’t see
Reply to Joram Arentvedany risk, whatsoever that I can fail to become & believe in & as much as possible about, what I sooner, as already said, didn’t know, didn’t think, if I could rely & count on to be my pers. case, because what was at stake for me, if anything, was my totally disturbed mother’s behavior, a Danish woman, who still gave me no opportunity that I could see myself as any true optimist, since they both, especially her husband to be, always controlled my opinion for me, if you right now feel any doubts, please just repeat them to me & any good human-right lawyer, like you & me aware that that money ideal can exist as no true ↔ happiness, because The Corrupt have no right that they can decide for me, what my life is, so that I can of course tell & e.g. help myself become a true optimist & e.g. an expert on, what my fate mission is, honesty back then never translated to her self-determined way of thinking, if she DID count on me or not, laboral- & humanly spoken, she was so far & just a 7-y.o. child, forever to be, greet’s, arentved@in.com.
The reason why all of us here talking about a moneyless world is because we are all attracted to this very frequency of thought. All we need to do is to open ourselves up to the fact that we are all part of the whole, part of the body of universe. As quantum physics now tells us that the world we’re living in is of a holographic nature, we are co-creators creating our every future moment. Non of this talk here are wasted as they have already formed the foundation for all others to follow or to add to. That is how our present civilisation was build, by a single thought. We all posses the same DNA of the creator who created this universe, only that we just begin to realise our infinite abilities, and no doubt just as time now seem faster, so would our own awakening on this planet.
The present economic system was devised to keep us all at bay, to tied us down so we are not free to think for ourselves. So as the present religious system, with the fearful gods whom will punish us for not ‘doing as we’re told to do’. And that people are mesmerized with money and material or even power in our temporary existence, so that we are forever trapped in this hellish dimension and mindset.
We all have a duty to remind ourselves that this life is nothing more than a lesson or a ground for spiritual growth, look beyond the illusion and free our minds.
We should be spendtime to mediate,to learn our true nature and identity of who we really are, as we are a pure energy temporarily living in a holographic body.
Look up ‘Gregg Braden’ and Maurice Cotterell (plenty more prominent scientist and spiritual writers if only we care to look) on Youtube, as their lecture can open up our frozen and preconditioned minds.
Everything that happens in our life are the result of our own manifestations, we are intrinsically linked, what we all do will affect one another. So we must take courage to accept our own action and take up responsibility for one and another, that one day to share and benefit all.
Love and peace to you all.
Reply to SixpmYou called ME the Devil? Many people still approve of no honesty, so I don’t see any risk, whatsoever that I can fail to feel honest with you,
Reply to Joram Arentvedwhatever God exists or not, greet’s, arentved@in.com.
My next example is of course honesty, a constructive idea that I can of course & only testify to being happy to think about, & whereby our future can very easily become possible, that is, as good humans, aware that where there is no honesty, lies all the bad news, whatever it is, greet’s, arentved@in.com, ex.: what on Earth do you achieve
Reply to Joram Arentvedby telling yourself that you can trust noone’s honesty? Your answer is a self denial of your own status as a human being, that’s all that you achieve.
Well I said it before and I’ll say it again, its much like buying a house “location” “location” “location” except in this case to have a proper functioning money-LESS Society the true answer is “technology” “technology” “technology”. Nano tech has the most promising dreams of first of all getting rid of the shitty jobs, like cleaning sewers or all those jobs that humans just do not like doing, that should be the first port-of-call. Its already happening al-be-it, very slowly, where certain aspects of life are being automated. Transport and delivery would be easy enough to automate even now but the whole infrastructure will have to change over time. Its not going to happen over night ofcourse, it will not even happen in our lifetime, keep in mind we are talking about a money- LESS society and not a cash-less society where money still exists NOR are we talking about a communistic approach where money is simply delegated where usually 1% of the people still end up with 80% of the money as is the case now a days.
Reply to edI think our world leaders are aware of this possibility and are making small changes to steer us on to the course. It may be that the NWO is getting bad press out of misunderstanding their long term goal, just a thought. I hope my grand children or their children live to see the day of the beginnings of a moneyless world, but it can only happen properly through technology. Period.
I don’t totally agree with you on
Reply to Joram Arentvedit, i.e. tech news, e.g. nano technology, however, if you can accept it, I can of course & only suggest you to start thinking about, what true values mean what to you, why & when, that’s so far all, there is
to it, greet’s, arentved@in.com.
Who is the prophet of money anyway, is it not the Rothschilds? They perpetuate the essence of money so that they can control the world. To get out of the chain of Rothschilds and their cohorts, get rid of their power - money. Do not give importance to money. What is money anyway? Give much and you can receive much. Dont think about money. Think more of generosity and kindness and money is no value.
Reply to Ali Chin